Honestley I have no idea I am not an antalope, so I don't know why they eat ants. There has to be some sort of thought process there so I would consider that some sort of consciousness.
"The basis of evidence from both humans and monkeys, that recurrent feedback activity in sensory cortex is the most plausible candidate for being the neural correlate of phenomenal consciousness in these species."
Well it coudl be a basic instic that they cannot control. Maybe if they cant control or they dont try to then its not really consciousness? Idk I wish i was a pokemon and could figure it out.
Functionalist theories of phenomenal consciousness that rely on more elaborately structured cognitive capacities can be less accommodating to the belief that animals do have conscious mental states.
A striking example of one-sided use of evidence is Thomas Nagd's famous paper "What is it Like to be a Bat?" (1991). One of the rhetorical peculiarities of Nagel's paper is that he chose bats and went to the trouble to relate a few of the fascinating facts about bats and their echolocation, because, presumably, those hard-won, third-person-perspective scientific facts tell us something about bat consciousness.
i would say that animals do have some sort of consciousness...they know how to hide from there predators when they are being hunted and they know what to do to get food.
i believe that an animal has consciousness but they just can explain themselves in words so we feel as though they are not smart enough to be conscious
Absolutely, animals have consciousness because they are similar to humans in their abilities to react to their environment and evolve. If animals have the brainpower to do this, consciousness has to be present.
Animals have true consciousness. They are aware of what they need to do to survive. They are aware of their surroundings, and are able to coherently think to a certain extent.
Human beings I believe are the only animals that have true consciousness. Animals and their behaviors are acted upon strictly by instinct. Humans behaviors come from emotions.
Bonica, "Plagiarism is the use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work.
Within academia, plagiarism by students, professors, or researchers is considered academic dishonesty or academic fraud and offenders are subject to academic censure"
i think human beings are not the only "animals" that have true consiousness for the same reasons hailey had. animals such as a cat or dog or jelly fish protect their homes, hunt for food (unless it is given to them).
I agree with bobby. Just because in our eyes we act civil, we communicate, we evolve, we constuct things...but so do "animals" they just do it differently then ourselves...
Yes. They are just as self aware and responsive to their enviroment as humans if not even more because they need to use their senses to survive in the wild. I don't see the difference between humans and animals besides the fact that we are slightly more intelligent...probably not by a lot and intelligence was never a part of the conversation.
Any animal that looks in a mirror and regognizes its reflection is its self is concious. since we said in question 1 that conciousness is the ability to be selfaware as well as aware of our surroundings, being able to regognize oneself proves conciousness.
I think it is safe to say that the lower animals do not show much or any brain function. For example creatures less sophisticated than jellyfish or some bugs essentially have no real brain and no discernable "thought" processes that can be seen to us. More advanced species exhibit problem-solving and advanced learning behaviors like moneys, dogs, and dolphins, but that can not be proved to reflect consciousness. This is because we can program computers to "solve" and "learn" similar things but this is not considered conscious thought to us.
Mr. Paulson is right. Humans are just a species of animals. Humans have a higher level of brain funciton and therefore we are more "civilized." Our closest relatives in the animal kingdom, monkeys, are in many cases just as advanced as humnans. They can learn sign language, have social structure, and have the ability to make and use tools. What makes us better than them?
Just because they don't have a high powered thought process doesn't mean that they aren't conscious. They hunt, eat, etc. so therefore they are aware of their needs and how to satisfy themselves. Brain power has nothing to do with anything...moving on.
i think liandra is on the right track. what sets us apart from other animals is the reasoning behind our actions. all other animals act on instinct, they do what it takes to survive and that is it. humans do things for luxury, which could also be attributed to our evolution. if i remember correctly, though, there are a few other animal species that feel emotion but not as complex as ours, like rats and dolphins.
brain power does have to do with our state of conciousness. if we had only the ability to act givin the circumstances of a situation, we would be more concious the the computer. and we dont consider computers to be concious. in the same way, animals who are born with only instinc and no ability to comprehend wat they are doing are not concious. in the end, brain power has a signifigant effect on conciouness.
Amber, animals act on instinct sometimes but how can you explain why chimps can learn sign language? Or how the navy is training dolphins to find underwater bombs and report their location. Those are both certainly not instincts.
yeah, so there are clearly levels. Maybe there are certain animals at higher levels that are concious...and those at lower levels that act soley on instinct
we are also faced with moral dilemmas. when an animal kills another of the same species it does not care, it is not phased by it because it is survival instinct. when a human is faced with the instinct to kill another human, most people would be faced with a moral conflict.
No, I do think that some animals have true consciousness. I do not have any science to back up my theory but i do think that some anmimals do. The reason why I think that is just by having a cat. Sometimes my cat seems like she is consicous and aware of her surroundings and me.
i didint read anybody elses so idk if this was already said...
I belive animals do have some kind of conciousness where they can think to themselves and maybe even talk to themselves...but they dont communicate with words, so i guess a dog would..bark?..to himself? maybe ive seen to many movies but i definitely think animals humans have it
Interesting question by Kalonji. If animals do "talk to themselves", what would it sound like? Do they think in pictures maybe? Also, if they don't talk to themselves like we do...are they conscious?
well i think that it is both. For example if she is sleeping in a room and I come in and accidentially wake her up. She sees that I am standing there but I also think that she is scared because she knows who I am. I am not sure if that makes sense..idk
I think humans are not the only ones with true consciousness,other animals are aware of what is around them and if they can't function like if their dead. They are conscious when humans are coming closer to them.
I dont think that humans are the only animals that have conciousness, I'm not sure of what other animals have true conciousness but it cant be just humans that have true conciousness.
i think thst humans are not the only ones wwith true consciousness because animals are very aware of their surrounding and can hear certain things before humans.
No, humans are not the only animals that have true consciousness.
Animals are aware of their own sensations and surroundings. If they weren't aware of these, then cats would be walking into walls and dogs couldn’t track through scent.
All animals wouldn’t be able to live and function without some level of consciousness.
SOME animals have SOME levels consciousness. This is apparent, for example, in elephants. Elephants have ceremonies when their elders or sickened die, signaling that they acknowledge death which absolutely takes consciousness. On the other hand, it is highly unlikely that those same elephants contemplate their meaning or purpose on the earth they walk upon, which takes a higher level of consciousness.
No, all animals have some type of consciousness because they are aware of things going on around them too. The way dogs respond to their owners whenever there is a problem is a sign of consciousness because they are aware of things going on around them.
Paulson- Me and Val got bored so we answered you question and fought ourselves over it
8:42:19 PM Ryan Sullivan: To Paulson-
If animals communicate and have their own language, wouldn't that mean they can think to themselves in their language as we do? If they talk why would they think in pictures. I think they have to talk to themselves thats what thinking is. They have to map out what they do for the day, like go to the right watering hole and what berries to eat and not eat, and what tree to go to the bathroom in. 8:42:21 PM Ryan Sullivan: hshhaha 8:42:37 PM patsgirl613: i need to make another and i may quote u 8:43:02 PM patsgirl613: wow... 8:43:03 PM patsgirl613: no\ 8:43:09 PM Ryan Sullivan: yes 8:43:27 PM patsgirl613: just cause u communicate doesnt mean its with a language 8:43:34 PM Ryan Sullivan: yes 8:43:50 PM Ryan Sullivan: communication throught the mouth is laguage 8:43:51 PM Ryan Sullivan: playa 8:44:42 PM patsgirl613: yes i didnt really read your thing but language isnt the only way of communication, tone is also 8:44:48 PM patsgirl613: SUCK IT! 8:45:02 PM Ryan Sullivan: so that can be considered a language if it understood by animals 8:45:12 PM Ryan Sullivan: they dont have voice boxs 8:45:22 PM Ryan Sullivan: just cause we cant understand it doesnt mean they cant 8:45:26 PM Ryan Sullivan: lick it 8:45:29 PM Ryan Sullivan: is the girls term 8:46:12 PM patsgirl613: no i know im just saying there are other ways of communication than word of mouth and would pitch changes be considered a language? 8:46:29 PM Ryan Sullivan: yes ehtiopians talk oin clicks 8:46:36 PM patsgirl613: bahaha 8:46:41 PM patsgirl613: well yes 8:46:42 PM Ryan Sullivan: true story 8:46:51 PM patsgirl613: snipe by ryan 8:47:00 PM Ryan Sullivan: bing 8:47:23 PM patsgirl613: i dont even remember what ur original thought was that im trying to shoot down 8:47:26 PM patsgirl613: dam headache 8:47:34 PM Ryan Sullivan: we should just post our convo 8:47:58 PM patsgirl613: maybe 8:48:09 PM patsgirl613: i have to keep rereading your comment to remember it, my brain sucks 8:48:38 PM patsgirl613: so what u're suggesting is that when like dogs bark they may be thinking out loud? 8:48:49 PM Ryan Sullivan: no they can think in barks 8:48:50 PM Ryan Sullivan: hahah 8:48:54 PM patsgirl613: oo 8:48:56 PM patsgirl613: oh ok 8:49:16 PM patsgirl613: kinda like when u're fluent in spanish you can think and dream in spanish as well? 8:49:22 PM Ryan Sullivan: yeah 8:49:27 PM patsgirl613: ok I have a legit language question 8:49:45 PM patsgirl613: btw i had no idea what you were talking about earlier, haha i agree with what you just said 8:49:51 PM patsgirl613: anyways, 8:50:17 PM patsgirl613: why do ppl in diffrent languages use diffrent words/sounds for anamil noises? 8:51:04 PM Ryan Sullivan: translation and interpretation 8:51:07 PM patsgirl613: random but dont we all hear the same? unless we are taught to interprut the sounds diffrently by some uncontrollable forse of culture around us 8:51:14 PM patsgirl613: i know but it bugs me 8:51:30 PM Ryan Sullivan: I think we interpret it based on our laguage and culture 8:51:44 PM Ryan Sullivan: thats why my mom hears words differently and pronounces them wrong 8:51:50 PM patsgirl613: that wat i was getting at 8:51:59 PM patsgirl613: i find that so amazing tho 8:52:09 PM Ryan Sullivan: I call her out on it 8:52:50 PM patsgirl613: because its not like a pronoucation of a word we are familiar to hearing said in english. Its a sound that doesnt change no matter where you are in the word and yet there seems to be no common word for it 8:54:10 PM Ryan Sullivan: yeah, maybe people are accustomed to hear things because they have tuned their hearing for their language and it differs aoming different people 8:54:13 PM Ryan Sullivan: amoung* 8:54:44 PM patsgirl613: yeah, idk i know its random but i always find it so fasincating haha 8:54:55 PM Ryan Sullivan: hahaha I am posting out convoo
8:55:55 PM Ryan Sullivan: I cnt diect connect you 8:56:17 PM patsgirl613: watever 8:56:24 PM Ryan Sullivan: I am posting ittt 8:56:25 PM Ryan Sullivan: hahahahaha 8:56:29 PM patsgirl613: i hate you 8:56:43 PM patsgirl613: ok question for you 8:57:03 PM Ryan Sullivan: ok 8:57:24 PM patsgirl613: why do u think its so ok to drink at this age? 8:57:35 PM patsgirl613: just woundering, dont rant to much 8:57:40 PM Ryan Sullivan: Um 8:57:55 PM Ryan Sullivan: culture I guess, its cool to do because they arent allowed too 8:58:10 PM Ryan Sullivan: people get the notion they are baddass and can feel got getting hammered all the time 8:58:45 PM Ryan Sullivan: good* 8:58:49 PM patsgirl613: ahh 8:59:00 PM patsgirl613: that such a domino affect then 8:59:13 PM patsgirl613: idk, what if its a lil darker 9:00:05 PM Ryan Sullivan: darker? 9:00:07 PM patsgirl613: im just saying this goverment and all these 'terrorist attacks' and school shootings prob dont sit ewell with everyone. forcing some to grow up fast in many ways and somie to just wanna escape 9:00:18 PM patsgirl613: its sad thinkning about it that way tho 9:00:25 PM Ryan Sullivan: yeah 9:00:34 PM Ryan Sullivan: I dont every kid who drinks worries about that though 9:00:42 PM patsgirl613: true 9:01:52 PM patsgirl613: idk i was reading a think about school shootings and how they may be caused by a simple change society has had to take precautions against things like it, considering it was never thought about before and it never happened before 9:02:00 PM patsgirl613: its still on my mind is all 9:02:19 PM Ryan Sullivan: most shooting are cause by unstable kids 9:02:25 PM Ryan Sullivan: or hazed ones
Reason why batman is better... HE HAS HIS OWN FREAKING THEME SONG!?!?! WHEN FLUTIE THROWS A HAIL MARY (cause that seems to be his only power) CO YOU THINK PEOPLE JUST START SINGING "DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA FLUTIE" NO! A FREAKING HAIL MARY PASS WOULD DO WHAT IN A BATTLE? WHAT I ASK YOU! personally im happy to know that if im EVER in need of help batman can come save me since paulson and fluite will be contemplating on HOW ON EARTH a hail mary pass can do ANYTHING USEFUL!
interesting point about thinking in language as opposed to images.
The people in Africa who speak in a click language live in the southern part of Africa, not Ethiopia, btw.
I wonder if dolphins think in high toned sonar and seals think in techno-funk?
Interesting point about Ryan's mom. It applies more directly to people who speak really different languages like Chinese, which is based more on inflection than European languages are. When we are hearing people speak Spanish and we don't know it, we can at least sense where most of the words and sentences separate. But, if we listen to someone speaking Chinese it can sound almost as confusing at seals or dogs even. Dog barks may mean something depending on a sound difference we are not used to detecting, just like Chinese words are different based on inflections we are not tuned into.
This goes back to Richard Dawkins point about how we "think" objects are solid even though they are mostly empty space. We evolved in an environment where our molecules can't pass through the molecules of a rock, so we perceive it to be solid, just like a person who speaks English may perceive Chinese or Spanish to be gibberish. But, a neutrino (a subatomic particle) if it has consciousness perceives the rock the same way you or I would perceive outer space - that is, mostly empty with lots of dots of matter.
Haha, the ethiopian one was from south park I just assumed, my bad.
And Touche with the Techo-Funk, that would be pretty awesome if they did. I guess the members of DEVO, are descendants from seals.
I agree that it is more noticeable with chinese. I hosted a Japanese student a couple summers ago, and it took him years just to learn a little ounce of english. I mean he could barley communicate with me. He had an electronic translator to talk to me with. But he told me that english sounds like gibberish to him too. I he wasn't "tuned" into hearing it.
That molecule thing is just one big paradox, you should be able to pass empty space, but you can't so your brain comprehends it to be a solid, but it isn't it is an empty space so you should be able to pass through it. That just makes my brain hurt.
This got me and Val into a another argument hahaha
2:46:59 PM patsgirl613: ok so pualson is bring up what he was saying in class today about the empty space being there though it isnt paradox 2:47:17 PM Ryan Sullivan: yeah 2:48:30 PM patsgirl613: this could just be me but the way its worded it seems as though the classification of a solid is inaquerate but our brains have an issue trying to comprehend that emtpy space that something cant pass through forms a solid 2:48:55 PM patsgirl613: if its empty space it usually seems to be thrown in the gases category 2:49:06 PM Ryan Sullivan: Yeah, since we can pass though an empty space, it isnt a space 2:49:07 PM Ryan Sullivan: hahaha 2:49:28 PM patsgirl613: i know, but the concept is a paradox 2:49:37 PM Ryan Sullivan: yeah, like most things though 2:49:41 PM patsgirl613: true 2:49:46 PM Ryan Sullivan: FREAKING PETA Is a paradox 2:50:00 PM patsgirl613: haha on to a PETA rant or we? 2:50:11 PM Ryan Sullivan: idk 2:50:22 PM Ryan Sullivan: I had my rant with paulson it was enjoyable 2:51:31 PM patsgirl613: i didnt hear it but i do enjoy the fact that people can be so adimant about things, like PETA and even the bible when there are an obscence amoutn of contradictions...funny i say this and im catholic : P 2:52:10 PM Ryan Sullivan: I know 2:52:20 PM Ryan Sullivan: Peta beielves animals have souls 2:52:21 PM Ryan Sullivan: but 2:52:27 PM Ryan Sullivan: if a peta member is christian 2:52:34 PM Ryan Sullivan: The bible says that animals dont have souls 2:52:45 PM Ryan Sullivan: so they are going against their language 2:52:48 PM Ryan Sullivan: religon 2:52:57 PM Ryan Sullivan: sorry answering paulson thing too 2:52:58 PM Ryan Sullivan: hahahah 2:53:15 PM patsgirl613: what? 2:53:26 PM patsgirl613: what paulson's question? 2:53:30 PM Ryan Sullivan: yeah 2:53:31 PM patsgirl613: go for it 2:53:35 PM patsgirl613: BUT 2:53:54 PM patsgirl613: you can be a part of a group and not totally believe in it 2:54:08 PM Ryan Sullivan: yeah but its contradicting 2:54:18 PM patsgirl613: true 2:54:26 PM Ryan Sullivan: like thats why most people in america dont beilve in animal rights 2:54:35 PM Ryan Sullivan: we were brought up by pruitains 2:54:46 PM Ryan Sullivan: so the beilfs thought animals had no souls 2:54:58 PM Ryan Sullivan: makes me mad 2:55:00 PM Ryan Sullivan: hahaha 2:55:07 PM patsgirl613: oh my 2:56:22 PM patsgirl613: poeple just have a tendancy to never wanna be wrong or do wrong to any, hence the need to believe in the bible and the need to let any aniamls have right...thats my thought 2:56:39 PM Ryan Sullivan: yeah 2:57:01 PM Ryan Sullivan: screw people, I say do what you want, and stop forcing me to change myself *cough PETA* 2:57:07 PM Ryan Sullivan: I LIKE STEAK 2:57:12 PM Ryan Sullivan: I kill cows to eat steak 2:57:17 PM Ryan Sullivan: peta wants me to save cows 2:57:32 PM Ryan Sullivan: screw it, I kill that to eat it not bathe and shower it 2:57:49 PM Ryan Sullivan: animals kill other animals if they have souls they are acting as we are 2:58:12 PM patsgirl613: Ok few things, one breathe haha 3:00:17 PM patsgirl613: two, i mean i think PETA;s point is that we have the resources to live a good, healthy life with out killing animals BUT I find it interesting that if the theory of the modern day human having the need to make one another feel comfortable (like not pushing god in schools and whatnot) is not followed by them 3:02:12 PM Ryan Sullivan: yeah 3:02:17 PM Ryan Sullivan: like in todays society 3:02:31 PM Ryan Sullivan: economic hell would break loose if meat was taken off the market 3:02:41 PM Ryan Sullivan: we would be closing thousands of business' 3:02:46 PM Ryan Sullivan: lost jobs 3:02:53 PM Ryan Sullivan: money going to give the animals land 3:03:06 PM Ryan Sullivan: they would over populate and animals would kill us off 3:03:13 PM Ryan Sullivan: screw it would be horible 3:05:14 PM patsgirl613: yes but that may be some ppl's ideal 3:05:40 PM patsgirl613: the thought of being one with nature, i mean thats how some great religions of the world started 3:06:09 PM patsgirl613: Buddhism I believe tries to have one forget about materialist things 3:06:10 PM Ryan Sullivan: and religion causes war 3:06:27 PM Ryan Sullivan: but in this day and age it isnt feasible to happen 3:07:16 PM patsgirl613: i mean many wars can be boiled down to religion but i think its something many people need 3:07:28 PM patsgirl613: not war religion 3:07:47 PM Ryan Sullivan: I can see that in the form of guidance 3:08:04 PM Ryan Sullivan: but to pressure it on to others is wrong to me, then need to find their own way 3:09:18 PM patsgirl613: well here's an interesting point, schools are trying they're hardest not to take a side but with that many times they are carving into the, shit i cant think of the word 3:09:26 PM patsgirl613: its the idea of having no god at all? 3:09:31 PM patsgirl613: something with an "a
3:09:34 PM patsgirl613: " 3:09:39 PM Ryan Sullivan: atheism 3:09:53 PM patsgirl613: thank you
69 comments:
Are humans really animals?
Honestley I have no idea I am not an antalope, so I don't know why they eat ants. There has to be some sort of thought process there so I would consider that some sort of consciousness.
Bonicas comment is from a link!!
"The basis of evidence from both humans and monkeys, that recurrent feedback activity in sensory cortex is the most plausible candidate for being the neural correlate of phenomenal consciousness in these species."
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/consciousness-animal/
Well it coudl be a basic instic that they cannot control. Maybe if they cant control or they dont try to then its not really consciousness? Idk I wish i was a pokemon and could figure it out.
Functionalist theories of phenomenal consciousness that rely on more elaborately structured cognitive capacities can be less accommodating to the belief that animals do have conscious mental states.
ok Jeff B, explain what all of that means.
Ryan, why would humans not be animals? What is the difference?
A striking example of one-sided use of evidence is Thomas Nagd's famous paper "What is it Like to be a Bat?" (1991). One of the rhetorical peculiarities of Nagel's paper is that he chose bats and went to the trouble to relate a few of the fascinating facts about bats and their echolocation, because, presumably, those hard-won, third-person-perspective scientific facts tell us something about bat consciousness.
i would say that animals do have some sort of consciousness...they know how to hide from there predators when they are being hunted and they know what to do to get food.
Ignore Bonica
human beings arent animals they are primates
i believe that an animal has consciousness but they just can explain themselves in words so we feel as though they are not smart enough to be conscious
ashley, aren't primates just a category of animal?
Absolutely, animals have consciousness because they are similar to humans in their abilities to react to their environment and evolve. If animals have the brainpower to do this, consciousness has to be present.
Animals have true consciousness. They are aware of what they need to do to survive. They are aware of their surroundings, and are able to coherently think to a certain extent.
welll if you are like a monkey i guess but arent we like an evolved version? idk this is too much on a monday morning Mr. Paulson
Human beings I believe are the only animals that have true consciousness. Animals and their behaviors are acted upon strictly by instinct. Humans behaviors come from emotions.
Bonica, "Plagiarism is the use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work.
Within academia, plagiarism by students, professors, or researchers is considered academic dishonesty or academic fraud and offenders are subject to academic censure"
so, monkeys are animals, but people are not animals? What is it that makes us "not animals"?
i think human beings are not the only "animals" that have true consiousness for the same reasons hailey had. animals such as a cat or dog or jelly fish protect their homes, hunt for food (unless it is given to them).
Humans are quite obviously animals. Just because we evolved does not make it untrue that we are animals.
they adapt to the enviornment around them and learn how to survive...just like ourselves
lee you are so intelligent.
I agree with bobby. Just because in our eyes we act civil, we communicate, we evolve, we constuct things...but so do "animals" they just do it differently then ourselves...
when we say "animal" what do we even mean by that?
Yes. They are just as self aware and responsive to their enviroment as humans if not even more because they need to use their senses to survive in the wild. I don't see the difference between humans and animals besides the fact that we are slightly more intelligent...probably not by a lot and intelligence was never a part of the conversation.
Yes.
So are we sayingn being aware of your evironment and using your senses is reality?
i agree with margee.
Humans are animals. Just like dogs and cats we fall under the category of animal.
Any animal that looks in a mirror and regognizes its reflection is its self is concious. since we said in question 1 that conciousness is the ability to be selfaware as well as aware of our surroundings, being able to regognize oneself proves conciousness.
all types of animals have a state of consciousness but their state of consciousness is not always the same
I think it is safe to say that the lower animals do not show much or any brain function. For example creatures less sophisticated than jellyfish or some bugs essentially have no real brain and no discernable "thought" processes that can be seen to us. More advanced species exhibit problem-solving and advanced learning behaviors like moneys, dogs, and dolphins, but that can not be proved to reflect consciousness. This is because we can program computers to "solve" and "learn" similar things but this is not considered conscious thought to us.
Mr. Paulson is right. Humans are just a species of animals. Humans have a higher level of brain funciton and therefore we are more "civilized." Our closest relatives in the animal kingdom, monkeys, are in many cases just as advanced as humnans. They can learn sign language, have social structure, and have the ability to make and use tools. What makes us better than them?
We have tv.
MOnkeys can watch tv too though.
but they cant make them.
Just because they don't have a high powered thought process doesn't mean that they aren't conscious. They hunt, eat, etc. so therefore they are aware of their needs and how to satisfy themselves. Brain power has nothing to do with anything...moving on.
Isn't conciousness all about the brain though? Idk, i'm confused. With animals isn't it just instinct? are they really aware?
i think liandra is on the right track. what sets us apart from other animals is the reasoning behind our actions. all other animals act on instinct, they do what it takes to survive and that is it. humans do things for luxury, which could also be attributed to our evolution. if i remember correctly, though, there are a few other animal species that feel emotion but not as complex as ours, like rats and dolphins.
brain power does have to do with our state of conciousness. if we had only the ability to act givin the circumstances of a situation, we would be more concious the the computer. and we dont consider computers to be concious. in the same way, animals who are born with only instinc and no ability to comprehend wat they are doing are not concious. in the end, brain power has a signifigant effect on conciouness.
dogs do things to get affection from humans and primates show complex forms of social interaction, their behavior goes far beyond "instinct"
Amber, animals act on instinct sometimes but how can you explain why chimps can learn sign language? Or how the navy is training dolphins to find underwater bombs and report their location. Those are both certainly not instincts.
yeah, so there are clearly levels. Maybe there are certain animals at higher levels that are concious...and those at lower levels that act soley on instinct
we are also faced with moral dilemmas. when an animal kills another of the same species it does not care, it is not phased by it because it is survival instinct. when a human is faced with the instinct to kill another human, most people would be faced with a moral conflict.
i really dont like this question
or get it
wow jess
ok eski... i dont see u evn answering the question
No, I do think that some animals have true consciousness. I do not have any science to back up my theory but i do think that some anmimals do. The reason why I think that is just by having a cat. Sometimes my cat seems like she is consicous and aware of her surroundings and me.
i didint read anybody elses so idk if this was already said...
I belive animals do have some kind of conciousness where they can think to themselves and maybe even talk to themselves...but they dont communicate with words, so i guess a dog would..bark?..to himself?
maybe ive seen to many movies but i definitely think animals humans have it
KHiggs, what do you mean by "aware of her surroundings, and me"? Do you just mean that she knows you are there, or does it go deeper than that?
Interesting question by Kalonji. If animals do "talk to themselves", what would it sound like? Do they think in pictures maybe? Also, if they don't talk to themselves like we do...are they conscious?
i think other animals have conciousness but i dont know how to example it i just dont think we are the only animals with consciousness
well i think that it is both. For example if she is sleeping in a room and I come in and accidentially wake her up. She sees that I am standing there but I also think that she is scared because she knows who I am. I am not sure if that makes sense..idk
I think humans are not the only ones with true consciousness,other animals are aware of what is around them and if they can't function like if their dead. They are conscious when humans are coming closer to them.
I dont think that humans are the only animals that have conciousness, I'm not sure of what other animals have true conciousness but it cant be just humans that have true conciousness.
i think thst humans are not the only ones wwith true consciousness because animals are very aware of their surrounding and can hear certain things before humans.
No, humans are not the only animals that have true consciousness.
Animals are aware of their own sensations and surroundings. If they weren't aware of these, then cats would be walking into walls and dogs couldn’t track through scent.
All animals wouldn’t be able to live and function without some level of consciousness.
SOME animals have SOME levels consciousness. This is apparent, for example, in elephants. Elephants have ceremonies when their elders or sickened die, signaling that they acknowledge death which absolutely takes consciousness. On the other hand, it is highly unlikely that those same elephants contemplate their meaning or purpose on the earth they walk upon, which takes a higher level of consciousness.
khiggs i dont know about your cat, but arent all cats like that?
No, all animals have some type of consciousness because they are aware of things going on around them too. The way dogs respond to their owners whenever there is a problem is a sign of consciousness because they are aware of things going on around them.
Paulson- Me and Val got bored so we answered you question and fought ourselves over it
8:42:19 PM Ryan Sullivan: To Paulson-
If animals communicate and have their own language, wouldn't that mean they can think to themselves in their language as we do? If they talk why would they think in pictures. I think they have to talk to themselves thats what thinking is. They have to map out what they do for the day, like go to the right watering hole and what berries to eat and not eat, and what tree to go to the bathroom in.
8:42:21 PM Ryan Sullivan: hshhaha
8:42:37 PM patsgirl613: i need to make another and i may quote u
8:43:02 PM patsgirl613: wow...
8:43:03 PM patsgirl613: no\
8:43:09 PM Ryan Sullivan: yes
8:43:27 PM patsgirl613: just cause u communicate doesnt mean its with a language
8:43:34 PM Ryan Sullivan: yes
8:43:50 PM Ryan Sullivan: communication throught the mouth is laguage
8:43:51 PM Ryan Sullivan: playa
8:44:42 PM patsgirl613: yes i didnt really read your thing but language isnt the only way of communication, tone is also
8:44:48 PM patsgirl613: SUCK IT!
8:45:02 PM Ryan Sullivan: so that can be considered a language if it understood by animals
8:45:12 PM Ryan Sullivan: they dont have voice boxs
8:45:22 PM Ryan Sullivan: just cause we cant understand it doesnt mean they cant
8:45:26 PM Ryan Sullivan: lick it
8:45:29 PM Ryan Sullivan: is the girls term
8:46:12 PM patsgirl613: no i know im just saying there are other ways of communication than word of mouth and would pitch changes be considered a language?
8:46:29 PM Ryan Sullivan: yes ehtiopians talk oin clicks
8:46:36 PM patsgirl613: bahaha
8:46:41 PM patsgirl613: well yes
8:46:42 PM Ryan Sullivan: true story
8:46:51 PM patsgirl613: snipe by ryan
8:47:00 PM Ryan Sullivan: bing
8:47:23 PM patsgirl613: i dont even remember what ur original thought was that im trying to shoot down
8:47:26 PM patsgirl613: dam headache
8:47:34 PM Ryan Sullivan: we should just post our convo
8:47:58 PM patsgirl613: maybe
8:48:09 PM patsgirl613: i have to keep rereading your comment to remember it, my brain sucks
8:48:38 PM patsgirl613: so what u're suggesting is that when like dogs bark they may be thinking out loud?
8:48:49 PM Ryan Sullivan: no they can think in barks
8:48:50 PM Ryan Sullivan: hahah
8:48:54 PM patsgirl613: oo
8:48:56 PM patsgirl613: oh ok
8:49:16 PM patsgirl613: kinda like when u're fluent in spanish you can think and dream in spanish as well?
8:49:22 PM Ryan Sullivan: yeah
8:49:27 PM patsgirl613: ok I have a legit language question
8:49:45 PM patsgirl613: btw i had no idea what you were talking about earlier, haha i agree with what you just said
8:49:51 PM patsgirl613: anyways,
8:50:17 PM patsgirl613: why do ppl in diffrent languages use diffrent words/sounds for anamil noises?
8:51:04 PM Ryan Sullivan: translation and interpretation
8:51:07 PM patsgirl613: random but dont we all hear the same? unless we are taught to interprut the sounds diffrently by some uncontrollable forse of culture around us
8:51:14 PM patsgirl613: i know but it bugs me
8:51:30 PM Ryan Sullivan: I think we interpret it based on our laguage and culture
8:51:44 PM Ryan Sullivan: thats why my mom hears words differently and pronounces them wrong
8:51:50 PM patsgirl613: that wat i was getting at
8:51:59 PM patsgirl613: i find that so amazing tho
8:52:09 PM Ryan Sullivan: I call her out on it
8:52:50 PM patsgirl613: because its not like a pronoucation of a word we are familiar to hearing said in english. Its a sound that doesnt change no matter where you are in the word and yet there seems to be no common word for it
8:54:10 PM Ryan Sullivan: yeah, maybe people are accustomed to hear things because they have tuned their hearing for their language and it differs aoming different people
8:54:13 PM Ryan Sullivan: amoung*
8:54:44 PM patsgirl613: yeah, idk i know its random but i always find it so fasincating haha
8:54:55 PM Ryan Sullivan: hahaha I am posting out convoo
8:55:55 PM Ryan Sullivan: I cnt diect connect you
8:56:17 PM patsgirl613: watever
8:56:24 PM Ryan Sullivan: I am posting ittt
8:56:25 PM Ryan Sullivan: hahahahaha
8:56:29 PM patsgirl613: i hate you
8:56:43 PM patsgirl613: ok question for you
8:57:03 PM Ryan Sullivan: ok
8:57:24 PM patsgirl613: why do u think its so ok to drink at this age?
8:57:35 PM patsgirl613: just woundering, dont rant to much
8:57:40 PM Ryan Sullivan: Um
8:57:55 PM Ryan Sullivan: culture I guess, its cool to do because they arent allowed too
8:58:10 PM Ryan Sullivan: people get the notion they are baddass and can feel got getting hammered all the time
8:58:45 PM Ryan Sullivan: good*
8:58:49 PM patsgirl613: ahh
8:59:00 PM patsgirl613: that such a domino affect then
8:59:13 PM patsgirl613: idk, what if its a lil darker
9:00:05 PM Ryan Sullivan: darker?
9:00:07 PM patsgirl613: im just saying this goverment and all these 'terrorist attacks' and school shootings prob dont sit ewell with everyone. forcing some to grow up fast in many ways and somie to just wanna escape
9:00:18 PM patsgirl613: its sad thinkning about it that way tho
9:00:25 PM Ryan Sullivan: yeah
9:00:34 PM Ryan Sullivan: I dont every kid who drinks worries about that though
9:00:42 PM patsgirl613: true
9:01:52 PM patsgirl613: idk i was reading a think about school shootings and how they may be caused by a simple change society has had to take precautions against things like it, considering it was never thought about before and it never happened before
9:02:00 PM patsgirl613: its still on my mind is all
9:02:19 PM Ryan Sullivan: most shooting are cause by unstable kids
9:02:25 PM Ryan Sullivan: or hazed ones
Reason why batman is better... HE HAS HIS OWN FREAKING THEME SONG!?!?! WHEN FLUTIE THROWS A HAIL MARY (cause that seems to be his only power) CO YOU THINK PEOPLE JUST START SINGING "DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA FLUTIE" NO! A FREAKING HAIL MARY PASS WOULD DO WHAT IN A BATTLE? WHAT I ASK YOU! personally im happy to know that if im EVER in need of help batman can come save me since paulson and fluite will be contemplating on HOW ON EARTH a hail mary pass can do ANYTHING USEFUL!
interesting point about thinking in language as opposed to images.
The people in Africa who speak in a click language live in the southern part of Africa, not Ethiopia, btw.
I wonder if dolphins think in high toned sonar and seals think in techno-funk?
Interesting point about Ryan's mom. It applies more directly to people who speak really different languages like Chinese, which is based more on inflection than European languages are. When we are hearing people speak Spanish and we don't know it, we can at least sense where most of the words and sentences separate. But, if we listen to someone speaking Chinese it can sound almost as confusing at seals or dogs even. Dog barks may mean something depending on a sound difference we are not used to detecting, just like Chinese words are different based on inflections we are not tuned into.
This goes back to Richard Dawkins point about how we "think" objects are solid even though they are mostly empty space. We evolved in an environment where our molecules can't pass through the molecules of a rock, so we perceive it to be solid, just like a person who speaks English may perceive Chinese or Spanish to be gibberish. But, a neutrino (a subatomic particle) if it has consciousness perceives the rock the same way you or I would perceive outer space - that is, mostly empty with lots of dots of matter.
Avoiding Batman I see?
Haha, the ethiopian one was from south park I just assumed, my bad.
And Touche with the Techo-Funk, that would be pretty awesome if they did. I guess the members of DEVO, are descendants from seals.
I agree that it is more noticeable with chinese. I hosted a Japanese student a couple summers ago, and it took him years just to learn a little ounce of english. I mean he could barley communicate with me. He had an electronic translator to talk to me with. But he told me that english sounds like gibberish to him too. I he wasn't "tuned" into hearing it.
That molecule thing is just one big paradox, you should be able to pass empty space, but you can't so your brain comprehends it to be a solid, but it isn't it is an empty space so you should be able to pass through it. That just makes my brain hurt.
This got me and Val into a another argument hahaha
2:46:59 PM patsgirl613: ok so pualson is bring up what he was saying in class today about the empty space being there though it isnt paradox
2:47:17 PM Ryan Sullivan: yeah
2:48:30 PM patsgirl613: this could just be me but the way its worded it seems as though the classification of a solid is inaquerate but our brains have an issue trying to comprehend that emtpy space that something cant pass through forms a solid
2:48:55 PM patsgirl613: if its empty space it usually seems to be thrown in the gases category
2:49:06 PM Ryan Sullivan: Yeah, since we can pass though an empty space, it isnt a space
2:49:07 PM Ryan Sullivan: hahaha
2:49:28 PM patsgirl613: i know, but the concept is a paradox
2:49:37 PM Ryan Sullivan: yeah, like most things though
2:49:41 PM patsgirl613: true
2:49:46 PM Ryan Sullivan: FREAKING PETA Is a paradox
2:50:00 PM patsgirl613: haha on to a PETA rant or we?
2:50:11 PM Ryan Sullivan: idk
2:50:22 PM Ryan Sullivan: I had my rant with paulson it was enjoyable
2:51:31 PM patsgirl613: i didnt hear it but i do enjoy the fact that people can be so adimant about things, like PETA and even the bible when there are an obscence amoutn of contradictions...funny i say this and im catholic : P
2:52:10 PM Ryan Sullivan: I know
2:52:20 PM Ryan Sullivan: Peta beielves animals have souls
2:52:21 PM Ryan Sullivan: but
2:52:27 PM Ryan Sullivan: if a peta member is christian
2:52:34 PM Ryan Sullivan: The bible says that animals dont have souls
2:52:45 PM Ryan Sullivan: so they are going against their language
2:52:48 PM Ryan Sullivan: religon
2:52:57 PM Ryan Sullivan: sorry answering paulson thing too
2:52:58 PM Ryan Sullivan: hahahah
2:53:15 PM patsgirl613: what?
2:53:26 PM patsgirl613: what paulson's question?
2:53:30 PM Ryan Sullivan: yeah
2:53:31 PM patsgirl613: go for it
2:53:35 PM patsgirl613: BUT
2:53:54 PM patsgirl613: you can be a part of a group and not totally believe in it
2:54:08 PM Ryan Sullivan: yeah but its contradicting
2:54:18 PM patsgirl613: true
2:54:26 PM Ryan Sullivan: like thats why most people in america dont beilve in animal rights
2:54:35 PM Ryan Sullivan: we were brought up by pruitains
2:54:46 PM Ryan Sullivan: so the beilfs thought animals had no souls
2:54:58 PM Ryan Sullivan: makes me mad
2:55:00 PM Ryan Sullivan: hahaha
2:55:07 PM patsgirl613: oh my
2:56:22 PM patsgirl613: poeple just have a tendancy to never wanna be wrong or do wrong to any, hence the need to believe in the bible and the need to let any aniamls have right...thats my thought
2:56:39 PM Ryan Sullivan: yeah
2:57:01 PM Ryan Sullivan: screw people, I say do what you want, and stop forcing me to change myself *cough PETA*
2:57:07 PM Ryan Sullivan: I LIKE STEAK
2:57:12 PM Ryan Sullivan: I kill cows to eat steak
2:57:17 PM Ryan Sullivan: peta wants me to save cows
2:57:32 PM Ryan Sullivan: screw it, I kill that to eat it not bathe and shower it
2:57:49 PM Ryan Sullivan: animals kill other animals if they have souls they are acting as we are
2:58:12 PM patsgirl613: Ok few things, one breathe haha
3:00:17 PM patsgirl613: two, i mean i think PETA;s point is that we have the resources to live a good, healthy life with out killing animals BUT I find it interesting that if the theory of the modern day human having the need to make one another feel comfortable (like not pushing god in schools and whatnot) is not followed by them
3:02:12 PM Ryan Sullivan: yeah
3:02:17 PM Ryan Sullivan: like in todays society
3:02:31 PM Ryan Sullivan: economic hell would break loose if meat was taken off the market
3:02:41 PM Ryan Sullivan: we would be closing thousands of business'
3:02:46 PM Ryan Sullivan: lost jobs
3:02:53 PM Ryan Sullivan: money going to give the animals land
3:03:06 PM Ryan Sullivan: they would over populate and animals would kill us off
3:03:13 PM Ryan Sullivan: screw it would be horible
3:05:14 PM patsgirl613: yes but that may be some ppl's ideal
3:05:40 PM patsgirl613: the thought of being one with nature, i mean thats how some great religions of the world started
3:06:09 PM patsgirl613: Buddhism I believe tries to have one forget about materialist things
3:06:10 PM Ryan Sullivan: and religion causes war
3:06:27 PM Ryan Sullivan: but in this day and age it isnt feasible to happen
3:07:16 PM patsgirl613: i mean many wars can be boiled down to religion but i think its something many people need
3:07:28 PM patsgirl613: not war religion
3:07:47 PM Ryan Sullivan: I can see that in the form of guidance
3:08:04 PM Ryan Sullivan: but to pressure it on to others is wrong to me, then need to find their own way
3:09:18 PM patsgirl613: well here's an interesting point, schools are trying they're hardest not to take a side but with that many times they are carving into the, shit i cant think of the word
3:09:26 PM patsgirl613: its the idea of having no god at all?
3:09:31 PM patsgirl613: something with an "a
3:09:34 PM patsgirl613: "
3:09:39 PM Ryan Sullivan: atheism
3:09:53 PM patsgirl613: thank you
Then we got side tracked
Post a Comment